[00:00:00] Debbie Goodman: Welcome to On Work and Revolution, where we talk about what’s shaking up in the world of work and Edtech. I’m your host, Debbie Goodman. I’m CEO of Jack Hammer Global, a global group of executive search, fractional talent, and leadership coaching companies. I’m an advisor to venture backed Edtech founders, and I coach CEOs and leaders all over the world.

My main mission with all of my work is to help companies and leaders to create amazing workplaces where people and ideas flourish, which is why I’m seriously thrilled to have Siya Raj Purohit as my guest today. I was introduced to Siya through the Edtech Week organizers. And before we go into our conversation, I want to.

I just wanted to share two things about Edtech week, which is literally one of the best Edtech conferences for Edtech founders, entrepreneurs, investors, and everyone else in the Edtech ecosystem. So firstly we’re offering 20 percent off Edtech week tickets. So tickets are selling Fast. You can register at Edtechweek.com and then use the promo code JHG 2024 for 20% of your ticket to join us in NYC.

The dates are October 8th to 10th in New York City. So that was number one. Number two is you can keep up with the latest Edtech News by and exclusive content by joining the Edtech Week newsletter. Also subscribe on Edtechweek.com. All of this will be in the show notes in case I speak too fast, in case you missed anything.

So, check the show notes if you want more details. Business is done, now on to Siya. Siya Raj Purohit is an education leader, author. An investor. She’s been working in the education sector since she was 18. She published a book about America’s job skills gap while she was still at college, because already at this stage of her life, she recognized this as a massive problem.

Her career reads a bit like a Silicon Valley fairy tale. She was an early employee at Udacity and Springboard, an investor at GSV Ventures and the founding Edtech workforce category lead at AWS. She then went on to her current role at OpenAI, where she’s building their education GDM. And she’s also a co founder of Pathway Ventures, an early stage fund investing in the future of learning and work.

But with all fairy tales, it’s never quite as glossy and straightforward as it may seem from the outside. And so today I’m going to be chatting to Siya about building career resilience, which is hugely topical, particularly in the current market, where it seems to be layoff season right now. Siya, welcome to On Work and Revolution.

[00:02:42] Siya Raj Purohit: Thanks so much for having me and this beautiful introduction.

[00:02:44] Debbie Goodman: Okay. First off, what inspired you to build a career around providing people with education and tools, essentially to advance their economic status?

[00:02:56] Siya Raj Purohit: So I went to undergrad to study computer engineering and quickly realized that universities weren’t teaching the skills that students needed to succeed in industry. I was 18 and feeling a lot of my classmates were dropping out of these programs in engineering just because they were designed for a very different era.

There was like so many, there were so many readout classes, like the average grade was like a 37 in engineering school. It was just a very difficult space to actually realize how incredible engineering careers actually were. So what I ended up doing was I called, emailed some really famous people to ask for their opinion on why someone should study engineering.

This was 2010, 2011. So before this whole learn to code movement had taken off and before people realized how important engineering careers were, And so these people thankfully responded to me and told me to come get coffee and just kind of talk about engineering pathways versus other types of majors.

And that’s when I realized that not all college majors are created equal. People who pursue careers in engineering and STEM majors do much better in their careers from a financial standpoint and contribute a lot to like the economic status of the country. So I ended up writing this book about America’s job skills gap that came out a couple of days before I turned 19, talking about like this importance of curriculums being fixed to make sure that engineering is much more accessible.

So anyone can earn a better living. And so the book came out and after that, I’ve just been trying to solve this problem. I want to make it really easy for people to build career pathways and kind of like land the jobs that they aspire for.

[00:04:34] Debbie Goodman: I mean, I think that’s no more prevalent, then that it is now. We’re seeing just how fast careers are changing, how fast the job, landscape is changing. The workplace landscape is changing and we are seeing the challenges that that schools have, that colleges and other educational institutions have with sort of keeping up with that pace.

So, you might need to do a revision on that book pretty soon, Siya. All right. So you’ve worked with some of the top tech companies in Silicon Valley, but they didn’t just like roll out the red carpet for you. Let’s start with your first startup role at Udacity. There’s a really interesting story about that, which I’d love you to share.

[00:05:13] Siya Raj Purohit: So, you know, when people look at career paths, they often overlook the amount of hustle and determination that it takes to land certain roles. So I think my story with Udacity is a great example of this. I had to ask them to reconsider a rejection. So to give you some context, I had, I was 21 at this point.

I had published this book. I was speaking about the importance of STEM education and also like making education more accessible at different types of colleges and campuses. And that was the same time that the year of the MOOCs happened. So, companies like Udacity and Coursera came up, a lot of momentum was being formed around solving this problem, and I really wanted to join Udacity.

So I applied for a few entry level roles at Udacity and I interviewed with the team, and I started feeling a very like deep alignment with the mission. But after a few rounds of those interviews, I received a kind but disappointing rejection letter. They said that my skills didn’t match their openings, but also acknowledged like this shared mission.

So I again was 21 trying to break into Edtech and that rejection hit really hard and suggested why don’t you just ask them to reconsider and It’s so surprising looking back because it’s something that a lot of people don’t think about. They’re like, okay, this is how the system works. It didn’t work out.

I have to move forward. But at that point, uh, with nothing to lose, I did write them back and I expressed my passion for the work, my eagerness to like learn and grow with them and talked about, yes, that I was early career, but by the time I’ll gain that experience, Udacity will be in a very different stage as well.

It’s. So I wanted to just, like basically ask them, is there really no role I could do at Udacity at 21 with the skills I had? And to my surprise, that letter worked. Um, the passion and persistence that I’ve shown combined with like the skills that they had assessed me for led them to create a role for me.

I ended up working at Udacity until I went to grad school. School and led partnerships with Georgia Tech and Google as we’re trying to kind of build out this online education movement. And so looking back, I think, um, I’m really glad it worked out. A lot of people that would like the right narrative and a little bit of luck, you can change things and maybe just ask for the opportunity that you want.

[00:07:28] Debbie Goodman: Yeah, I think that it’s that it is, uh, the right narrative because, one does need to appeal in the right way. Luck definitely does come into it because you have to have a person, a recruiter or a line manager who’s actually open to receiving this. And I think right now we’re seeing so much of the recruiting process

being handled by technology. And so, it may not be possible or feasible, but I know for sure that if some, if, I mean, I interview people for our company all the time, and even if I had perhaps declined somebody for some reason or another, if they came back to me and they really pushed hard, I would

really reconsider because just that, that drive, that tenacity, that persistence, that, I mean, that person would be great in sales at least, you know, to take a rejection and then come back and say, hold on a second, maybe you’ve missed something here. I absolutely love that. So, anybody who’s listening to this, if you’ve been declined recently for a job opening that you really, really wanted

you may want to try just pushing back a little and see what happens. Can you imagine all these recruiters starting to get tons of, starting to get tons of letters requesting a revision?

[00:08:39] Siya Raj Purohit: Yeah, push back, but also figure out how you can add value and whether that is like by building that relationship, because maybe it’s not this month, but maybe it’s next month that you get that position. So do things that add value to the people that you’re looking to connect with on a professional basis.

[00:08:54] Debbie Goodman: Yeah. Okay. Duly noted. All right, so you, you’ve said something else that I found fascinating. You said that you need to do practice reps for the job you want to land. And I love this because as a former athlete, professional dancer myself, I’m very familiar with the process of doing all the training and all the prep work needed for go time.

But what do you mean by this? These are sort of practice reps in the context of wanting to land the job that you want.

[00:09:22] Siya Raj Purohit: The biggest challenge in landing a job is that hiring managers often want proof that you’ve already demonstrated the skills that they’re looking for. But the catch is that people don’t usually leave one job just to go do the same job elsewhere. So, that’s where this idea of practice reps comes in. Just like athletes train, like, rigorously before game day, professionals should be proactively building the skills and experiences they need

they need for the careers they aspire to have. For instance, when I wanted to work in product management, I didn’t have any formal product experience. So I co founded a startup with three friends and focused on the product side. I engaged with potential customers, designed the interface, and incorporated the feedback I got from trying to sell it to improve that product offering.

Like all of the steps that like, that people experience in a product journey. So this kind of hands on experience allowed me to showcase a real project when applying for product roles. Similarly, like when I tried to break into venture capital several years later, I knew I needed to demonstrate like my network and thought leadership.

So I started writing publicly about industry trends, my insights, and the people that I was meeting. So this helped me both build a brand, but also land that job in VC. I get like that applying for jobs can feel like a full time job in itself.

[00:10:40] Debbie Goodman: Yeah, it really is.

[00:10:41] Siya Raj Purohit: It’s. It really is. But if you’re serious about a particular career path, I think it’s crucial to take control and start building that narrative early.

Do the work that aligns with your goals, even before you have the title. These practice reps will not only build your skills, but also position you as the right candidate when that opportunity comes up.

[00:11:02] Debbie Goodman: Wow. That is just really profound. I think particularly for people who are feeling so frustrated, like, can somebody just give me a break? And the thing is that, yes, it does take somebody to give you a break, but it also takes you to start doing the work of building skills in alternative ways outside of the formal employment route.

And so sometimes it is a side hustle or the side project. Sometimes it’s just being able to speak knowledgeably about a project, a piece of work, an industry, and these days creating content around that yourself, user generated content around a topic and positioning yourself as a thought leader,

that’s never been easier. So, I do encourage people to think a little more laterally about how they’re going to build their brand positioning which can really stand for a lot, even if you haven’t got the actual work experience Okay. So, and let’s just talk about this to continue talking about this idea around.

You’ve heard this, I’ve heard this people say I wasn’t given the opportunity. And that may be fact, but your response is, well, build your own door. And that’s an amazing soundbite, but just elaborate on that a little. I think it’s a continuation of this theme, but where does this kind of come from in your life and your world?

[00:12:16] Siya Raj Purohit: So tying in with this idea of practice reps, sometimes you’ve got the skills, you’ve done the work, and you’ve built the brand, but the opportunity still doesn’t come. This happened to me in 2019. I was in my mid 20s, and an opportunity I really wanted didn’t materialize. And I honestly felt really lost and unsure of my path.

So, in that moment, I did two things. Or actually, it wasn’t a moment, I think it was like an era. It was the year of 2019 for me. But, at that time, I did two things that, in hindsight, made a lot of difference. First, I believe in like this concept of healing through community. I started sharing my challenges, like how I was feeling lost both personally and professionally at like 25, 26 at this time.

And I listened to others share their stories. And I think what this did was, It helped me learn that every problem we face has been faced by someone else before. There’s a playbook for everything and connecting with others helps us emotionally recover, and at least like start to kind of find a way forward.

And the second is this idea of building your own door. So at that time I wanted to have a deeper impact in venture capital, but the opportunities weren’t coming my way. I’d built a brand. I knew them like sector. I had like the network, like all of those things that I thought would make me a really good VC, but I just didn’t have that VC position.

So then a grad school professor suggested to me and my friend who went on to become my co founder that why don’t you both just start your own VC fund. And at that time we were still in our 20s, so that seemed like a goal for much later in our careers. But then we thought like, why not now? Like, why don’t we just like try to build this ourselves?

And that’s how Pathway Ventures, my VC fund, was formed. And I see this all the time, like people who publish books that become bestsellers or who build a product to solve their own problem and end up creating a public company. So in the end, these moments of building your own door can either become like a new path or serve as deep like practice rep to like that helps you prepare for something even greater.

[00:14:22] Debbie Goodman: Wow, it’s such a really neat soundbite around build your own door. I think I’m going to keep using that over and over. I mean, I’ve done that a ton of times, although I hadn’t thought of it like that really up until now. The many times I’d, been on a pathway with a specific strategy and a determined, uh, direction in order to reach an outcome and then just keep doing the same thing, not getting the result I want and then figure out, okay, I’m going to have to change it and create something for myself.

And so, yeah, these closed doors or these, this, the feeling of having so many closed doors, you just got to keep looking and sometimes the door doesn’t open, build it yourself. So, on this theme of, uh, Pathway Ventures, let’s talk a little bit more about that right now. So it’s an early stage venture fund, which focuses on the human side of future of work.

That’s the soundbite, that’s the tagline on your website. So share more about this. What is, what do you invest in?

[00:15:15] Siya Raj Purohit: What gets us really excited at Pathway is companies that enable economic mobility. So as I talked about, this is all I care about, all I want to do with my career. And my co-founder is similar, like he’s been working in education and workforce for the past 10, 15 years at this point. Um, so both of us want to help enable like the human side of the future work, which we define as new mechanisms that enable learning, earning and community building.

So how people can improve their skills to land better jobs or how people can actually monetize their skills in new ways and the kinds of communities that help support them.

[00:15:53] Debbie Goodman: Wow. How big is your portfolio right now?

[00:15:56] Siya Raj Purohit: So we’ve made about seven investments, but we invest in founders that we get really excited about because we get really deep with them. We’re both operator investors, so we both have other day jobs in the sector as well, and the idea is how can we keep contributing to the ecosystem as we grow in our careers as well?

[00:16:13] Debbie Goodman: Okay. So, um, Pathway Ventures, I won’t call it your side hustle, but you’ve actually got another main job. Um, you’ve sort of recently ish moved into the epicenter of where it’s all happening in the AI world at OpenAI. Siya, if you were in an early stage in your career, how would you be using the generative AI technology, chat GPT and the like, in the context of building your career and your skills base?

[00:16:43] Siya Raj Purohit: Wow. I think my career would have looked so different if I had AI at 22. I think ChatGPT can be an incredible coach for building like career and skills. So at 22, there was so much that I didn’t know, like how to navigate career paths, land certain jobs, prepare for interviews, or even like write and communicate like an executive.

These are all skills that it took me like a solid 8 10 years to learn. I think ChatGPT can be that back-and-forth guide, helping work through questions and challenges as they come up in people’s careers. So back then, I think, uh, I had like this close-knit group of friends, my council of advisors, we were all 22, so like that’s, I mean, we all had like finite knowledge, I guess, in this domain.

But they would review my emails and brainstorm project ideas, and we would work together to help each other kind of dream up about future career paths. But I think ChatGPT can be another friend in that mix, like one who brings like the world’s information and like a even keel tone to the table. But it’s like having a mentor who’s always available and helping solve these different types of challenges and helping you also just push yourself more.

Ask about what else you could be working on in specific domains that you care about. What are some of the creative projects and actually work with ChatGPT as that creative thought partner. As you complete these, it will help you with those practice reps. It will help you with those doors that you build and hopefully just help navigate the complexities that come with early career growth.

[00:18:17] Debbie Goodman: on that note I think anybody who’s really wanting to use ChatGPT or any AI technology well, should just take A course on prompt engineering, because the responses that you’re going to get, the feedback that you’re going to get asking the right questions is going to be materially and substantially different.

 I mean, there’re free courses online as well that you can use in order to learn how to use this technology. I mean, if anybody’s struggling with. With their career, whether they’ve got a job, whether they’re out of a job, whether they actively looking for a job. if you’re not using ChatGPT to bounce ideas, to ask for ways to handle a certain situation, to do interview prep, you’re interviewing with somebody.

You want to get as much information about that person as you can. You need to use this technology really well to put yourself ahead. So, any listeners who are currently in the job market or even currently got a great job, but want to be better at whatever they’re doing, this is a free tool to help you with that. Well, you can pay for the upgraded version too. 

[00:19:15] Siya Raj Purohit: Biggest tips on this, by the way, is to share as much as possible the ChatGPT about what you want to accomplish very detailed. Be like, I’m 22. I’m making this presentation for the senior director. I’m nervous because they like to have very concise information. I get very tactical, like share things that only you know, with ChatGPT about what you’re looking to accomplish and be like, their tone is X, Y, Z. My tone is like this. This is what I want to get better at. Just share all of this and your questions and you’ll find that the responses that you get are phenomenal because it’ll help mould to your exact needs.

[00:19:52] Debbie Goodman: Good to hear this and such a great tip. I’m always surprised to hear that people are not quite using the available technology. Even the tip of the iceberg enough and it really should be common nature by now. So, I mean, no judgment, but kind of judgment get onto it. It’s it’s such a great tool and we should be having, you know, we should, we’ve got these co pilots, so use it.

No need to be afraid of it. Super easy to use and so great in the context of, career resilience. Siya, we’re heading to the end of our session with you. I’d love to know what’s currently inspiring you, podcasts, books, music, leaders, influencers. Who’s on your, who’s on your list of, uh, of what things to watch.

[00:20:35] Siya Raj Purohit: So I love the Edtech Insiders community. We just hosted a book club with Edtech Insiders on Sal Khan’s new book, and it was really inspiring to talk about the impact of AI on like K 12 schools and teachers, because I hope that with this, finally teachers will free up time from some of the administrative work that they do to spend more time with like students, but also with their own families.

And things that they like to do outside. So it was a great discussion that we recently had, and I love the Edtech Insiders podcast as well. And I think the next book I’m going to read is my friend, Isabel Howe’s new book. It’s called Love to Learn. It’s about early childhood education. She’s currently the executive director of the Stanford Accelerator for Learning and a phenomenal thinker in early childhood. So I’m excited to read that.

[00:21:23] Debbie Goodman: Okay. And then we are just going to end on this note, 20 percent off Edtech Week tickets. You can register Edtechweek.com and use the promo code JHD 2024 for 20 percent off. Siya, you’re going to be presenting at the conference, right?

[00:21:40] Siya Raj Purohit: I am, yes.

[00:21:40] Debbie Goodman: Okay. Together with some really other amazing leaders, investors, entrepreneurs, they’re great, shark tanks. It’s just a fantastic conference. So, and it’s the place to be in October. So, book your ticket now. So yeah, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been wonderful, inspiring. I’ve definitely got some things to think about and it’s been a pleasure to host you today.

[00:22:02] Siya Raj Purohit: Thanks for having me.

[00:22:03] Debbie Goodman: Bye now.